Humans are sinful, therefore need salvation. However, the false notion that the Human Nature is the same as the Sinful Nature (SN) leads to error. Jesus saves from sins committed (deeds) and cleanses from sin inherited (SN), because His blood cleanses from ALL sin. If we misunderstand this truth, we will miss this truth. God does not save sinful nature, but He does save sinful men by saving us from sinful nature.
BE NOT DECEIVED...
When I started to connect to the internet today, a neighbor's network was at the top of the list, where my connection is usually found. The name of my neighbor's network is Dragon. By habit I clicked on the top connection, then quickly realized it was not mine. I clicked it off before it connected to my computer.
The devil not only impersonates God (as an angel of light), he also impersonates us. Even when we have been forgiven and cleansed, the devil wants us to think that we are nothing more than worms of the dust, when in fact we are new creations in Christ, old things are passed away and all things have become new. If we think we are still sinful, when in fact we are redeemed, purified and empowered by the Holy Spirit, we will more easily be led astray into defeated living.
Don't click onto the dragon's network, Walk in the Light and Live Triumphantly.
A QUESTION WAS ASKED OF ME
(FRIEND WROTE)
If we think we are still sinful, when in fact we are redeemed, purified and empowered by the Holy Spirit, we will more easily be led astray into defeated living.... ~~~~~ David can you clarify this one a little more for me??? Are you saying as christians we don't ever sin? I ask forgiveness everyday for my sins.....Shouldn't we???
(DLG RESPONSE)
(DLG RESPONSE)
thanks for your question. I am on errands right now but will address it later.
Quick answer; Yes, if a believer sins he must repent. However, it is not required of a Christian to sin. Some people erroneously equate sinful with being human or being in a mortal, physical body. Jesus not only saves from penalty of sin, He saves from pollution and power of sin.
DLG...
Quick answer; Yes, if a believer sins he must repent. However, it is not required of a Christian to sin. Some people erroneously equate sinful with being human or being in a mortal, physical body. Jesus not only saves from penalty of sin, He saves from pollution and power of sin.
DLG...
this is a huge subject, so let me address a little bit at a time.
Briefly let me point out that people use the word “sin” in different ways. Some people view anything that is not absolutely perfect as being sin, such as weakness or frailties, however, God does not condemn anyone for being less than absolutely perfect and He does not condemn anyone for having weaknesses or frailties, therefore I do not use the word sin in that context. Sin, as an act, is basically the willful violation of the known will of God. We will be held accountable for willful disobedience.
Friend said,
Briefly let me point out that people use the word “sin” in different ways. Some people view anything that is not absolutely perfect as being sin, such as weakness or frailties, however, God does not condemn anyone for being less than absolutely perfect and He does not condemn anyone for having weaknesses or frailties, therefore I do not use the word sin in that context. Sin, as an act, is basically the willful violation of the known will of God. We will be held accountable for willful disobedience.
Friend said,
“Are you saying as christians we don't ever sin?”
DLG...
DLG...
I am not saying that becoming a Christian precludes the possibility of ever sinning again in this life.
While we are in this present evil world we have a free will with which we either yield to God in faith or we rebel against God.
Salvation makes it possible to not sin, it does not make it impossible to sin.
Sin is sin, whether committed by a person who has been born again or not, and all sin needs the atonement of Christ.
This is why John said, “... I write these things to you that you sin not.” However, since we are still free moral agents, believers have the power to sin. For this reason John also said, “... if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” (1 Jn. 1:1).
We err if we think salvation does not save us from sin, we also err if we think we are able to live without sinning, apart from the grace of God.
Salvation from sin is the redemptive work of Christ, through faith, it is not the attainment based on human dedication or discipline.
We cannot walk in light and darkness at the same time, so, a person who is walking in the light cannot be walking in the dark.
It is impossible to love and hate a person at the same time, so a person who is loving his neighbor as himself cannot deliberately do harm or wickedness to that neighbor.
It is impossible to be holy and sinful at the same time, so a person who is following Christ in full surrender cannot be disobeying God at the same moment.
Therefore John said, “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God” (1 John 3:9).
Cleansing from sin is conditional upon walking in the light (truth, knowledge, leading) God gives to us.
When we choose not to follow fully we are no longer walking in the light, and therefore we are no longer being cleansed from all sin (1 Jn. 1:7).
This brings us back to David W's statement. We need (and we can) bring every thought captive to the obedience of Christ.
Either God separates us from sin or sin separates us from God. Remember, we are not talking about a works righteousness, we are talking about a salvation that works.
I want to come back and address your other points in another comment.
I also will address the question of “perfection” later.
I realize this just scratches the surface, but does this help at all?
Friend said,
While we are in this present evil world we have a free will with which we either yield to God in faith or we rebel against God.
Salvation makes it possible to not sin, it does not make it impossible to sin.
Sin is sin, whether committed by a person who has been born again or not, and all sin needs the atonement of Christ.
This is why John said, “... I write these things to you that you sin not.” However, since we are still free moral agents, believers have the power to sin. For this reason John also said, “... if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” (1 Jn. 1:1).
We err if we think salvation does not save us from sin, we also err if we think we are able to live without sinning, apart from the grace of God.
Salvation from sin is the redemptive work of Christ, through faith, it is not the attainment based on human dedication or discipline.
We cannot walk in light and darkness at the same time, so, a person who is walking in the light cannot be walking in the dark.
It is impossible to love and hate a person at the same time, so a person who is loving his neighbor as himself cannot deliberately do harm or wickedness to that neighbor.
It is impossible to be holy and sinful at the same time, so a person who is following Christ in full surrender cannot be disobeying God at the same moment.
Therefore John said, “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God” (1 John 3:9).
Cleansing from sin is conditional upon walking in the light (truth, knowledge, leading) God gives to us.
When we choose not to follow fully we are no longer walking in the light, and therefore we are no longer being cleansed from all sin (1 Jn. 1:7).
This brings us back to David W's statement. We need (and we can) bring every thought captive to the obedience of Christ.
Either God separates us from sin or sin separates us from God. Remember, we are not talking about a works righteousness, we are talking about a salvation that works.
I want to come back and address your other points in another comment.
I also will address the question of “perfection” later.
I realize this just scratches the surface, but does this help at all?
Friend said,
First I want to say Thank you to you both....it means alot to have you guys there giving so much of your time to me. yes what you both say makes so much sense....its like I'm seeing the truth for the first time...but why would churches instill in us that we sin daily....its so much a part of my belief system...I am a sinner...I sin daily....I need to seek forgiveness every day....I've just accepted this as fact...I see in the bible all that you say....but there is also in the bible, verses that talk of no man being without sin...esp in 1 john...but what you say about love and hate...walking in light and dark.....it speaks volumes to me.....how can you sin and walk in the light at the same time...you either are...or you are not...also what you DAvid W said about "having a bad thought"....I was always taught that bad thoughts were sinning...that was one of the reasons we need to ask forgiveness daily....but you saying the bad thought...in and of itself is not necessarily sinning....wow...I have had so much shame in my life....for things I considered a sin.....frustrations for never feeling GOOD ENOUGH....why didn't I question this? I knew I was not putting the thought into action....but just accepted what I had always been taught....the preacher said it...so it must be true... lots to think on here.....looking forward to what else you have to say.....thank you and MANY MANY Blessing to you both
DLG... On the idea of bad thoughts, remember, there are evil thoughts and thoughts of evil. Evil thoughts are the thoughts that we entertain and thoughts of evil are the thoughts that are foisted on us by out surroundings or by other people, including Satan.
It has been explained by saying, You cannot stop the birds from flying over your head, but you can keep them from building a nest in your hair.
You cannot stop the bad thoughts coming from the outside, but you can choose to either entertain those thoughts or dismiss them by the power of the Holy Spirit.
A good place to start bringing every thought captive to Christ is with your belief system. You, along with most of us, have been taught false doctrines as if they were Biblical. Read the Bible afresh. Allow it to explain itself and bring all of your beliefs into line with the word, rather than interpreting the word according to what you are being taught, whether from me or anyone else.
Friend said,
"...but there is also in the bible, verses that talk of no man being without sin...esp in 1 john..."
DLG...
DLG... On the idea of bad thoughts, remember, there are evil thoughts and thoughts of evil. Evil thoughts are the thoughts that we entertain and thoughts of evil are the thoughts that are foisted on us by out surroundings or by other people, including Satan.
It has been explained by saying, You cannot stop the birds from flying over your head, but you can keep them from building a nest in your hair.
You cannot stop the bad thoughts coming from the outside, but you can choose to either entertain those thoughts or dismiss them by the power of the Holy Spirit.
A good place to start bringing every thought captive to Christ is with your belief system. You, along with most of us, have been taught false doctrines as if they were Biblical. Read the Bible afresh. Allow it to explain itself and bring all of your beliefs into line with the word, rather than interpreting the word according to what you are being taught, whether from me or anyone else.
Friend said,
"...but there is also in the bible, verses that talk of no man being without sin...esp in 1 john..."
DLG...
Actually, this is not altogether true. Let me direct your attention to an article I have written that might help with this question. It is on my ministry web page www.seasideministries.com along with other articles. This article addresses what the Bible says about whether or not we can be righteous. It considers those verses that seem to deny such an idea and supposedly claim that Christians are still sinners or still unable to be righteous.
http://www.seasideministries.com/?page_id=505
I will come back to your other points shortly, but if you will, take the time to look at this article and then tell me what you think.
If you get insomnia some night and want to read yourself to sleep you can also look at my article on 1 Jn. 1:8. It is the only verse that really seems to say we cannot be delivered from all sin. Obviously, that cannot be true in light of the rest of Scripture. My article is found on our ministry website under the drop down box SO GREAT SALVATION, and is entitled 1 JOHN 1:8 EXPLAINED.
It is a long article, but it is thorough.
http://www.seasideministries.com/?page_id=839
I am not trying to wear you out.
I am available. Have a great evening.
http://www.seasideministries.com/?page_id=505
I will come back to your other points shortly, but if you will, take the time to look at this article and then tell me what you think.
If you get insomnia some night and want to read yourself to sleep you can also look at my article on 1 Jn. 1:8. It is the only verse that really seems to say we cannot be delivered from all sin. Obviously, that cannot be true in light of the rest of Scripture. My article is found on our ministry website under the drop down box SO GREAT SALVATION, and is entitled 1 JOHN 1:8 EXPLAINED.
It is a long article, but it is thorough.
http://www.seasideministries.com/?page_id=839
I am not trying to wear you out.
I am available. Have a great evening.
